Actually they are closes to a NASCAR vehicle than anything else. They are pretty low tech vehicles with big V8s. I dont know if they are tubed frame or based on real chassis, but the tech is very much NASCAR like, just designed for road courses.
#1
I've been wondering how these cars compair to ALMS/FIA GT cars, and Japanese Super GT cars. Are they more like ALMS cars( use basic chassis and mechcanical package) or Super GT cars( only a few parts simliar to road going cars used). Or are the unique as far as the specs go. And does the current Ford Falcon use the 302ci/5.0 liter V8 used in road going Falcons until 2003, or the 5.4 liter engine currently used in the road car( ie, which engine is the race engine based on)?
#2
Actually they are closes to a NASCAR vehicle than anything else. They are pretty low tech vehicles with big V8s. I dont know if they are tubed frame or based on real chassis, but the tech is very much NASCAR like, just designed for road courses.
#3
Just a reminder, SPEED will be televising V8 Supercars starting 12/26
#4
G'day all.The V8 Supercars can't really be compared to any other series on Earth, or anywhere else for that matter.
I guess Nascar would be similar, but I don't quite know enough about Nascar to give a true comparison.
The V8's as they are affectionately called are obviously a control formula. That formula is, 5.0L 90 degree, pushrod V8's, Rear wheel drive, 4 doors. Some of their critics call them the V8 SuperTaxi's due to them using a basic sedan with relatively low technology.
However this is probably unfair as the only resemblance to the average family sedan or taxi is the basic body shape/design.
In a bid to make the sport more competitive, several years ago, 'Project Blueprint' came into fruition. This was designed to even out the two different cars (Holden Commodore, Ford Falcon) and has achieved this. Project Bluprint set out guidelines for the aerodynamics of the car, basically giving the two cars identical front and rear wing, rear diffuser, and floor locations and profiles.
The series uses a control Dunlop tyre, running on 17inch alluminium rims of the teams choice. There is much debate at the moment over the tyre quality and wheel size, as driving a 650+BHP rear wheel drive, 1350kg car, on such tiny tyres is seemingly crazy.
Driveline is almost identical between the marquees.
Most of these measures are in place to reduce the cost of the sport and provide close racing.
I'm not sure how much of the V8's is seen in the US, but if it is relatively undiscovered over there, then you are in for a treat! This is some of the best entertainment going. There is genuine racing in this series. On track passing, plenty of paint swapping, and tantalisingly close battles. Due to the control formula, qualifying often leads to the first 15 gridspots being covered within a half of a second, and the whole field of 32+ within 2 seconds.
This is why it has proven to be a difficult series to crack for international drivers, the only real success being Yvan Muller of France winning last years Sandown 500 with local hero Craig Lowndes in very ordinary weather. It is a series where drivers are constantly on edge. These cars require a driver to somewhat finesse them around our demanding circuits to protect the tyres, but this doesnt mean they're slow.
In answer to your previous posts;
Chernaudi: The cars are basically unique as far as specs go. The ford motor is a 5L Windsor V8. I'm not sure of it's origins, but I know for sure that neither the Ford Racing or the Holden Motorsport V8's are based on ANY road going car engines..:RDriver: They are similar to Nascar, although they arn't actually low tech exactly. Perhaps limited technology would be a better phrase. Tech is capped to prevent unfair advantages, then updated every few years. The level of proffesionalism and innovation in the category would otherwise see it spiral out of control. As to the chassis, the cars are built as a roal cage/tubed frame, with the actual car body also providing structural support, rather then just hanging off the chassis as aero.
One more thing. Many motorsport enthusiasts list the likes of Daytona, Le Mans, Monaco F1, Assen TT, as must see motorsport events. Let me advise you though that the V8 Supercar Bathurst 1000 must be added to everyones list. These cars are designed with this circuit in mine, and what a spectacle they are. The sound and sight of these cars coming across the top of Mount Panorama is one of the best in Motorsport. The gearchanges thump against your chest, and reverberate off the concrete walls. The flames shooting out of the side exit exhausts on half throttle. The cars squirming under brakes and full throttle as the drivers wrestle them over skyline and into the dipper. Amazing.Another category that may be of interest is the Aussie Racing cars. These are a support category to the V8 supercars and mimmick the cars in many ways, only that they are midgets. These cars run a 4 cylinder Yamaha motorcycle engine developing around 250Kw (340BHP) and weigh around 500kg with fuel and driver. They often race 5 and 6 wide. They are incredibly quick due to their low centre of gravity, extreme power-to-weight and high torsional rigidity.
Holden Racing Team/HSV Dealer Team/HSV Cars website (official Holden Factory teams):
Ford Performance Racing (official Ford Factory team):
Australian V8 Supercars website (lots of better info!)
Aussie Racing Cars (essentially midget V8's):
http://www.aussieracingcars.com.au
Cheers. Hope this answers a few questions.Harley McAlister.
#5
I'd consider the Aussie V8's the best racing in the world right now. Watch these guys throwing the cars around is absolutely amazing and I'm glad that Speed is bringing them back as I've missed watching the races incredibly.Bathhurst 1000 is just nuts. I haven't had a chance yet to see what the reconfigured track looks like though. At least I thought they had reconfigured it and improved a couple of places for "safety" sake as it was rather tight.
|| David@vwvortex.com ||
#6
The Ford 5.0 Windsor V8 is derived from the 260 c.i./4.3 liter Ford pickup truck engine and the 289 ci/4.7 liter engine that was designed for the orginal Mustang and the GT 40 Le Mans car. Look up Ford Windsor engine at Wikipedia.And I've seen the circuit at Bathurst, and it's little wonder that the ALMS/LMS and FIA GT don't race there- ground effects damage. Both FIA and ACO/IMSA spec prototype and GT cars' front and rear diffusors would easily get badly damaged, which can equally as easily derrange the handling. Le Mans is a car breaker because you go so fast of so long, and the parts of the circuit that are usually public highway are bumpy and rutted by years of cars traveling over them. Sebring is a car breaker due to the fact that most of the circuit is made up of old airport runways. Bathurst is a car breaker for both reasons- high speeds, and the use of bumpy, relatively poorly maintained( at least to permanent race circuits) public roads. I still would think that it still be neat to see an Audi R8 or R10 go around Bathurst.
#7
harlo, you're right in that they arent exactly low tech, but when I use that I use it as a description in comparison to the other forms of racing that the original poster compared it to.The Aussie V8s are using fairly basic technology, just like NASCAR uses. They are pushrod V8s, no fancy overhead cams or variable valve timing or exotic materials. Chassis are not using carbon fiber or fancy diffusers and ground effects or carbon bodywork. Trannys are not paddle shift or sequential units.
So the basic technology being used is low tech in comparison to series like Le Mans and the FIA GT.
NASCAR is really the closest thing we have to the Aussie V8s. Which is really ironic considering how many people will praise the Aussie V8s and talk about how cool they are and in the same breath chastise NASCAR for being hillbilly tech and in the dark ages.
'
Put some aluminum wheels and some basic aero on Jr's Chevy and you'll practically have a Holden Commodore.
#8
Hello again.Well i guess yeh when you put it like that they're pretty similar!
Actually I think FIA GT would be able to handle the Bathurst track quite well. 2002/3 saw the Bathurst 24hr held which featured many cars that were retirees from this series or the ALMS GT ranks. Prototypes/Sportscars, probably not.
The track was resufaced in 2003 and a brand new state of the art pit lane and surrounds was completed in time for last years race, complete with 55 garrages. The resurfacing saw the track times tumble by a few seconds, which is a rarity in this category. I live only an hour from the track and whenever I pass through on the way to Sydney I try and get in a lap! Obviously the track feels super smooth at road car speeds and in comparison to the urban roads around it, but haven driven on another Australian track or two (Eastern Creek & Phillip Island) it is actually far superior to both of these permanent surfaces.
Recently the NSW Government passed the Mt Panorama bill enabling up to 5 significant race meetings every year, up from two previously. This I think could open the possibility of an FIA GT round, and after Stefan Ratel visited the circuit, he certainly suggested that this would be the case.
David@vwvortex: The only changes to the track have been the addition of 'The Chase' to the mile - long conrod straight after a couple of fatal incidents, and this was in 1986. Other then that the track has remained original bar improvements in runoff and barriers. But it is still narrow in places but that just adds to the character and the challenge of it.
Keep the questions/oppinions coming, I love talking/bragging about one of the worlds best circuits!
Harley.
#9
Perhaps with the new regulations for prototypes, they can race at Bathurst with out as many problems. With the increased ride height and the stepped front diffusor and tunnel type rear diffusor( and without the easliy damaged old style stakes), as well as raised ride height of the floors, it may be possible. However, they'd all probably have to change the Jabrock skids after every practice session( fortunately, these aren't checked for legality after the race, like in F1!).I still don't think that the LMS/ALMS would race at Bathurst, and if they made a return to Austrailia, it would probably be to the Melborne F1 circuit, or the Adelade semi permanent street circuit( where ALMS ran in 2000). But I think that, with the new rules, it would be possible.
#10
Quote, originally posted by chernaudi » I still don't think that the LMS/ALMS would race at Bathurst, and if they made a return to Austrailia, it would probably be to the Melborne F1 circuit, or the Adelade semi permanent street circuit( where ALMS ran in 2000). But I think that, with the new rules, it would be possible. Would love it if LMS/ALMS returned to Adelaide
I was at a party that night & in the background you could here them racing it was fantastic
#11
Quote, originally posted by David@vwvortex » I'd consider the Aussie V8's the best racing in the world right now. Watch these guys throwing the cars around is absolutely amazing and I'm glad that Speed is bringing them back as I've missed watching the races incredibly. Bathhurst 1000 is just nuts. I haven't had a chance yet to see what the reconfigured track looks like though. At least I thought they had reconfigured it and improved a couple of places for "safety" sake as it was rather tight.
x2(00). I'd watch just one round of these guys before I'd sit through 20 NAS(S)CAR "events". I too am amazed at the things these guys can do with these beasts. I also respect the fact that you can go out to the parking lot and find cars that actually resemeble what is being run on the track. Sans the wing & wacky camber, that is.
Mike S.SacWater
'03 20th Anniversary - '96 GTI VR6
'91 B3 Variant - '76 Mk1 - '66 T3 Variant
*Duc*Duc*Hawk(GT)*
Niello Ranch Run - Wuste2010
#12
That's so true. I sat through the entiry of Speed Channel's coverage of the 24 Hours of Le Mans in June. Where as with NASCAR, I've slept through parts of several races this year(and all the way through the Michigan race held the same day as the finish of Le Mans).
#13
Quote, originally posted by harlo » Hello again. Well i guess yeh when you put it like that they're pretty similar!
Actually I think FIA GT would be able to handle the Bathurst track quite well. 2002/3 saw the Bathurst 24hr held which featured many cars that were retirees from this series or the ALMS GT ranks. Prototypes/Sportscars, probably not.
The track was resufaced in 2003 and a brand new state of the art pit lane and surrounds was completed in time for last years race, complete with 55 garrages. The resurfacing saw the track times tumble by a few seconds, which is a rarity in this category. I live only an hour from the track and whenever I pass through on the way to Sydney I try and get in a lap! Obviously the track feels super smooth at road car speeds and in comparison to the urban roads around it, but haven driven on another Australian track or two (Eastern Creek & Phillip Island) it is actually far superior to both of these permanent surfaces.
Recently the NSW Government passed the Mt Panorama bill enabling up to 5 significant race meetings every year, up from two previously. This I think could open the possibility of an FIA GT round, and after Stefan Ratel visited the circuit, he certainly suggested that this would be the case.
David@vwvortex: The only changes to the track have been the addition of 'The Chase' to the mile - long conrod straight after a couple of fatal incidents, and this was in 1986. Other then that the track has remained original bar improvements in runoff and barriers. But it is still narrow in places but that just adds to the character and the challenge of it.
Keep the questions/oppinions coming, I love talking/bragging about one of the worlds best circuits!
Harley.
Harley, thanks for the update on the track. Did they further improve the runoff up at the top of the moutain at all as every video I've see has the walls **right** there?
|| David@vwvortex.com ||
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